Curse

Naqser · Jun 17, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

I bet they made the AI on the Henchmens bad on purpouse because if they were good, people would prefer them instead of real players. Allready happening. Anyway, if people would use computer based players more and more, then the whole MMO concept would go kablukeb. So they encourage players to use real players in their parties. Then henchies are only there as a last resort.

Rent · Jun 17, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I GREATLY prefer henchmen over PUGs. PUGs are my last resort.

Racthoh · Jun 17, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

I GREATLY prefer henchmen over PUGs. PUGs are my last resort.

Ditto, they follow the same target, interrupt anything and everything, go when I go, don't complains, don't go AFK, let me go AFK, and ultimately will always get the job done.

And it takes all of 10 seconds to fill a group with them. Small price to pay monk hench's that try to tank every so often.

quickmonty · Jun 17, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Ditto, they follow the same target, interrupt anything and everything, go when I go, don't complains, don't go AFK, let me go AFK, and ultimately will always get the job done.

And it takes all of 10 seconds to fill a group with them. Small price to pay monk hench's that try to tank every so often.

They do complain now if you just stand around.

But I much prefer them over the average PUG.

Friends/guildies > henchies > PuGs

anonymous · Jun 17, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Yeah I used to be able to walk up to a mob, die and the hench would win, guess they got toned down a bit because I cant always do that. But even though they arent as strong I prefer losing half the time with hench than putting up with the average human pug, and thats pretty sad.

Francis Demeules · Jun 17, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naqser

I bet they made the AI on the Henchmens bad on purpouse because if they were good, people would prefer them instead of real players. Allready happening. Anyway, if people would use computer based players more and more, then the whole MMO concept would go kablukeb. So they encourage players to use real players in their parties. Then henchies are only there as a last resort.

The Domination and Interupt henchmen have some... godly reflexes to interrupt foes. I still can finish a Chapter with only henchies (did Gayla Hatchery with only henchies. It was really difficult but I did it).

Bane of Worlds · Jun 17, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

The Domination and Interupt henchmen have some... godly reflexes to interrupt foes. I still can finish a Chapter with only henchies (did Gayla Hatchery with only henchies. It was really difficult but I did it).

well AI for the mesmer henchies or let's say the unholy ability to interupt is superb
I find myself wasting too much time with pugs lol
like forming a group, doing mission,and redoing mission because someone screwed up

lightblade · Jun 17, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Henchmen is actually better than real players, in case you haven't notice...each henchmen have all their attribute set to 21 instead of normal value...

Making a better AI is always hard, the easiest way through it is to simply make them stronger.

Francis Demeules · Jun 17, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

At least Anet had buffed about "how to use" with the rez signet with AI.

Panix · Jun 17, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

The Canthan Henchs believe in a res sig and use it as soon as one falls. A PUG is too busy thinking about themselves and thinks a Res(be it hard res or sig) a burden on their bar. I like hench because I can take a phone call, get a drink, or study a map without having everyone rushing around.

Kurow · Jun 17, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

PuGs arent so bad, I generally try to get them over henchies. I usually use henchies as last resort. Even though henchies do focus fire, and pugs usually dont, henchies dont seem to be as good as normal people are. After all, I only see them around 4 skills. And besides, pugs talk and such, makes it a lot more interesting than the scipted blabber of the henchies.

sinican · Jun 17, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

just an excuse for sloppy AI... IMO it would be stupid to make AI bad just to make players look better...

players should always be better than AI because they can react and strategize... all people are asking the AI do here is to do what they are directed to do... attack when they are told to attack res when they should be ressing staying with the group...

i choose Henchies because pugs arent always easy to throw together everywhere... and a lot of pugs arent interested in farming the sae boss over and over so I can get the staff i want...

there arent always monks or specific players you need...

by limiting the ability of the henchies on purpose its basically not allowing players to enjoy playing the game...

when i have time to play may not be when anyone else has time to play and maybe i only have 15 minutes to play and i want to get from point a to point b... a pug isn't going to do me... i cant do it solo with the particular class im using and when henchies do stupid shit like run into a mob to res someone bah blah blah...

basically telling me i cant play when i want to or when i have time to... and if that is the attitude they intend to protray then umm that kinda lowers the number of boxes they sell from expansions...

gotta keep people interested gotta keep people playing and by forcing certain ways and times to play that is not opening the game up to all markets...

if you like pugs thats your choice... i like them fro Missions but not for the quests i like to take my time in most quests and complete multiople quests before claiming the rewards pugs typically like to rush and skip a lot of crap and if the henchies cant cut it what point is there in playing the game???

im nto saying henchies cant cut it nor am i saying all pugs are the same... im just saying that bad AI being intentional is a porr excuse of crappy AI...

there may be aspects of henchies that are limited because players should be better however stupid stuff like... once again henchies running into a mob to res agroing everything and either dieing or herding the mob back to the group to get slaughtered should not be one of those things...

i consider not being able to choose henchies skills one of those disadvantages of henchies which i would consider as intentional (could be wrong though the AI team could just be lazy for not having this feature) or that their are only certain types of henchies in certain areas being a limitation where there are always only a max of 2 healers avaialble usually a prot and a healer whereas a pug could be 4 healers and 4 tanks or whatever you want because you arent limited to the types of henchies available...

henchie AI being good will not replace the real player only replace the bad ones... eveyrone else will get on with their fun and enjoy the game... people will still form pugs for custom builds and skill choices that arent available on the henchies

Mavrik · Jun 17, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

PUG is a last resort for me as well. Even the most frustrating event I've had with hench hardly compares to the frustrations of the average PUG. With hench you can always expect roughly the same from them. But in a pug either its really good, or its really bad. Most of mine have been bad.

Sacho · Jun 17, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I prefer henchies to PuG's, yet I run PuG's anyway. Because henchies are so boring. Players tend to make stupid mistakes that make the mission more interesting(and bloody

). They also don't listen to your calls, rush blindly and suicide into a large group, tend to take really random skills, not have max armor, etc, etc. This all, imo, makes missions more interesting, as doing them with henchies is so boringly easy, I have fallen asleep on some.

Yanman.be · Jun 17, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Maybe if you increase hechmen AI, people who want to play with real people, have to become better ( they're so lazy they take real people to do the hard work for them ) , because otherwise, they can't get in pugs anymore....everyone that's good enough will use henchmen!

Gaile Gray · Jun 17, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

In all honesty, it is possible to program AI so that it is the Uber Player, the one that is better than... you!

It is possible to make it heal faster than any player, res more accurately, fight more intelligently, and not have "human error" like mashing the wrong key or forgetting to swap weapons.

But yes, as suggested in this thread, it's not in the best interests of the game to make it AI Wars. The AI is created to assist and to provide a viable companion, but not to supplant players who are real humans. (Pauses to consider: Are there "unreal" humans?

)

Guild Wars is a social game, and it encourages playing with others while making it entirely viable to play solo, if you wish. You have choices and those choices are pretty well balanced! The last thing we want to do is to make it the best choice of all to have a guild that consists solely of Alecia, Professor Gai, Cynn, and that Thom guy.

Selena_Lionheart · Jun 17, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Heh, I did Raisu Palace eight times with my monk in PUGs, failed every single time. Take Henchies just once, got Masters. The AI is already better then humans, trust me ^_^

sinican · Jun 17, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

In all honesty, it is possible to program AI so that it is the Uber Player, the one that is better than... you!

It is possible to make it heal faster than any player, res more accurately, fight more intelligently, and not have "human error" like mashing the wrong key or forgetting to swap weapons.

But yes, as suggested in this thread, it's not in the best interests of the game to make it AI Wars. The AI is created to assist and to provide a viable companion, but not to supplant players who are real humans. (Pauses to consider: Are there "unreal" humans?

)

Guild Wars is a social game, and it encourages playing with others while making it entirely viable to play solo, if you wish. You have choices and those choices are pretty well balanced! The last thing we want to do is to make it the best choice of all to have a guild that consists solely of Alecia, Professor Gai, Cynn, and that Thom guy.

i can accept that... minus the other variables that anet possibly isnt considereing...

and i dont want uber henchies... NO ONE has asked for that...

i want the henchies at the least to follow the same comon sence that a 10 year old has and to mechanically be limited to the same rules every player has to 200 att points 16 att max with sup runes casting times etc...

not allowing players to take henchies that arent avaialble in the area is good
not allowing players to modify the henchies atts or skills is good
not allowing players to choose what armor and items the henchies have is good...

now what is left to make henchies more like they should be is at the least to keep them from wandering away from the group...

now in a pug i can kick that player and nevre group with him/her again... whereas if there are no monks on at 3 am eastern when i have a half hour to play my only choice is the healer henchie and i can choose a dif healer henchie because there isnt one i constantly have to put up with the stupid AI makeing her run out of the groups range to agro a huge mob whilst trying to res a single downed ally while we all are trying to regroup with less than 50% health and a seperate mob on our tails...

that im sorry is an excuse...

the henchies should NOT be leaving the agro/group range to do its own stupid crap and to cripple the team...

is this not what most people are complaining about...

what the henchies do is way beyond human error.... seriousely what player is stupid enough to run the oposite direction of a retreiting party to go back into the mob that just wooped the crap out of the group attempting to res someone while the rest of the living party members are taking dmg not getting any healing???

at the least i can choose to never have that human player in my party again or the more civil is that i can suggest to the player better tactics and 9/10 that player can change...

but again forcing us to rely on other players to have a stable group limits when and where people can play the game...

in otherwords either i dont get to play when i have time to do the missions i need to get done because i have to settle going somewhere i already was just so the healer doesn't comit suicide and lead the badies to the rest of the group

Navaros · Jun 17, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Guild Wars is a social game, and it encourages playing with others while making it entirely viable to play solo, if you wish. You have choices and those choices are pretty well balanced! The last thing we want to do is to make it the best choice of all to have a guild that consists solely of Alecia, Professor Gai, Cynn, and that Thom guy.

In my view playing Guild Wars solo with Henchmen is often not viable. Especially in difficult zones with multiple mobs with dozens of enemies all congregating in the same place. Ie: Southern Shiverpeaks.

A few reasons why henchmen are often not viable:

- Henchmen can never retreat until it's too late, resulting in their guaranteed deaths if they get themselves into a losing fight.

- Henchmen often cause multiple mobs to get aggroed that real players would never have aggroed, which just compounds the first problem.

- Monk henchmen will always solo aggro into a mob to res any other dead party member and ensure their guaranteed instant re-death.

- It is not possible to pull mobs while playing with henchmen because the henchmen will always aggro ahead of you 100% of the time.

- Henchmen are very weak overall. Their power is limited, their skills are limited, and their AI is very, very, very limited.

I can understand not making henchmen become overpowered, however as it stands henchmen are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy the heck on the other side of the spectrum from overpowered. Henchmen should be on par with regular players. Yet they are not, not by a longshot.

Recently I was in a video game store and I picked up a box of Chapter 1's "game of the year" edition or something like that. It said something like "Play with your friends or ours. You may band with other players or skillful AI henchmen". I was shocked when I read that on the box, because the henchmen in Guild Wars are nowhere near being "skillful".

The henchmen need attention and buffing from the devs. Not to the point of being overpowered, just to the point of not being absymally bad.

Shyft the Pyro · Jun 17, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I have to chime in with my own perspective. Personally, I've never looked at henchies as anything other than tools. If you succeed with henchies, that means you are skilled at using the tools at your disposal. If you fail, you need to understand how the tools function better.

I'm not saying the tools are perfect; I'm saying you have to understand their limitations if you choose to use them. Everyone knows that henchies aggro anything you attack, or anything you call out as a target. But I bet most of the people who say "henchies suck" haven't noticed that casting an offensive spell without calling it out doesn't make henchies attack. If you retreat right after casting such a spell, the henchies follow you without aggroing, and you can effectively pull the enemy along and even separate merged mobs.

Henchies are only "smart" or "dumb" by comparison to human players, and because the "human player" is not a homogenous pool of equally gifted individuals but rather a random, luck-of-the-draw experience each time, the "smart v. dumb" quotient varies greatly based on each person's experience. On their own, however, henchies are neither "smart" nor "dumb," the same way a knife isn't dangerous until someone's around to use it.

So I use henchies for things I know I can't get human players, or things I know they will perform as I request. I hate all the "need 2 monks" spamming that goes on in missions, so I call out for "1 human healer" instead and fill the second slot with a hench. Heck, I've done missions with 2 healing henchies just fine before. And when I'm out looking to complete the Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer title to go with my Tyrian one, I can't exactly rely on finding players interested in hugging the edges of whatever zone I'm going into, so I take henchies - tools that were designed to let me explore the zone solo.

I can't say I mind that the tools talk back now, but since I see so much of them I'd really like to get some of the repeated inconsistencies in their speech fixed